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#1 2007-02-23 18:26:21

Johan Broström
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Från: Norsjö
Registrerad: 2006-04-01
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Next Nordic schedule

As decided at previous NC in Maaruud, sweden has delegated the task of constructing a proposal to a new Nordic schedule to Bo Hansson. We assume that the other nordic countries do the same. Their task, however, is not an easy one at the moment. As far as I know there has been no decision taken on wich will be the next F3A schedule, and as you can imagine designing a "F3A-light" is impossible until "the big boys" has decided "the real thing".

At this forum Bo will present the swedish proposal to a new Nordic schedule as soon as possible. We suggest that the other schedule constructors do the same so that we can have a chance to view them and think things over.

Also, I think this forum i a splended way to discuss matters that will be decided at the pilots-meeting at the NC this summer. If we prepare the questions and discuss them here before we actually "club" it at the meeting there will be a lot less talking about how the "elite" always gets there way in how things are going to be run.

So, to cap it up. At the pilotsmeeting i Norsjö this summer we will decide:
1 IF we are going to change the current Nordic schedule til' season -08.
2 If "YES" on above question, what schedule, of the submitted proposals, we will use from season -08 and forward, at least until the NC in Denmark -09.

Highest regards
/ Johan Broström, Norsjö

ps. I'm sorry if my english isn't what it should be - nowdays I almost never get a chance to practice it.. and quite frankly, it has never been what it should be... =/  generad

Senast redigerat av Johan Broström (2007-02-24 13:05:57)

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#2 2007-02-24 19:55:37

F3ABerra
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Från: Stenungsunds MFK
Registrerad: 2006-04-01
Inlägg: 48
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Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hi all!

I believe that this forum is a great place to get a new schedule for the next two years in the Nordic-class discussed.
However, I believe that the best way is to get only one proposal for this new schedule to discuss. Last time there where four different proposals and allot of argumentations to get their schedule to be the one voted for (even if they where not so far apart).
The country that will hold the NC will make a suggestion that will be discussed and changed, not one from each country. This year it’s Sweden but next time it will be Denmark and so on. So please let Bo Hansson draw a schedule based on the P09 that we all can have comments on, not 4 different ones!

Best Regards!
Bernt Olsson

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#3 2007-02-25 19:03:35

Bosse H
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Registrerad: 2006-03-22
Inlägg: 66

Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hello!

I´m working on a proposal based on the "Prelminary schedule P-09".

I hope I can present it in a couple of weeks. visslar

I will send it for consideration to some of the Nordicpilots and the NC organizer.

Regards
Bosse H.

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#4 2007-02-26 07:34:45

Raimo Ruokonen
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Från: Finland
Registrerad: 2007-02-02
Inlägg: 9
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Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hello!

Based on the previous Nordic schedule construction, I think that one initial proposal is definitely better than four!
This forum is a great place for discussion about the proposal. If the discussion gets too "loud", there is always the possibility to discuss and refine the proposal privately with a smaller amount of representatives from the Nordic community.

    Best regards,
        Raimo Ruokonen

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#5 2007-02-27 12:05:48

Ola Fremming
Gäst

Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hi guys
Excellent, one suggestion to start with is the best 
The F3A schedules will be decided in the 22-24 March FAI meeting, the suggestions from the sub-commitee can be found here : http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/meetings/200703
Please notice that the number of maneouvres will most likely be reduced in the F3A schedules.

Until a schedule is established I hope we can have a pre-discussion  that can help the creator of the new schedule. Here are som topics to start with :

- Are we going to change Nordic only bechause we want a 2-year change interval ?
- Do we want a change to achieve somthing special.
- Do we want a simpler or a more complicated schedule than the current ?
- Do we want to introduce snap-rolls or not?

Regards
Ola

PS : I hope that the F3A-administrator in each country will point the community in each country to this discussion.  The more people that is involved the less chance of making a stupid mistake.

 

#6 2007-02-28 12:59:04

Dag Øiseth larsen
Gäst

Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hi fellows!!

A very interesting discussion on the future Nordic scedule is about to be launched in these days. I will like to contribute to that by expanding  and repeating the questions  raised by mr. Fremming.
quote:
Are we going to change Nordic only bechause we want a 2-year change interval ?
- Do we want a change to achieve somthing special.
- Do we want a simpler or a more complicated schedule than the current ?
- Do we want to introduce snap-rolls or not?
unquote.
From my point of wiev a total re-design is not necessary but some modifications may improve both symmetri and geometry. (By all means, the current program is a good platform for entering the FAI schedule.) So for our own sake, let's find out what is wrong and re-design from there, and not the other way. So, this question may be pertinent to raise.

What do we want to achive?

From my point of wiev I have in my mind the difficulty to fly current program well. This is based on experience placing the figures "correctly" in the box. I try to fill the box and not to take advantage of the rest of air-space, and I find this very difficult at the turn-around at each side of the box where partial loops are in the manouvre.

So to obtain symmetri a shuffle of manuvres may be necessary to introduce partial loops in every turn-around. What do we gain by this? In addition to geometry and the figures symmetry we may focus on manouvres size in the box which is a importent element for the visual impression of the flight. Will an improved flight description be in place to rule out "personal belives" re manouvers????

By the way, may somebody tell the rest of us in their own words the correct size of Nordic manouvre 5,11,15 and 19 related to the "box"?

I find this schedule fun to fly because of its simplicity and difficulty.

May we all stay in the air and ...


Regards
Dag Øiseth Larsen

 

#7 2007-03-01 04:17:01

Johan Broström
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Från: Norsjö
Registrerad: 2006-04-01
Inlägg: 76
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Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hi all.

To answer your questions about manouvres 5, 11, 15 and 19... All those are manouvres that contain partitial loops, if my memory serves me right. visslar

The relation to the box is as follows. The manouver should (almost) touch, but not exceed the 60 degree "box line". As for the hight of these manouvers, they should be the same hight as all manouvres, for example the stallturn, humpty bump or the half-cover.

Describing how-to (when) starting to execute turnaround-manouvres is a bit tricky, since that depends totally on the rest of you style of flying... How close you are, how big centermanouvres you make and so on...

Since this is read and written in an ungodly hour of the day (my son has the stomach flu acklad ) I hope that I have answered your questions without misinterpret them to much... generad

Highest regards
/ Johan Broström, Norsjö (Sweden)

Senast redigerat av Johan Broström (2007-03-01 04:21:18)

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#8 2007-03-02 11:13:53

Dag Ragnar Larsen
Gäst

Re: Next Nordic schedule

Hi all,

As I'm currently involved in trying to fly the N-07 correct and in a way that will score well, I have a few comments that could be considered when designing the new shedule;

1. By introducing snap-roll manouvers in the next Nordic schedule, the schedule is moved even closer to the complexity of the F3A schedule. This requires even more effort to trim the plane correctly, and the pilots need to burn even more fuel to be able to get a decent flight without wetting their pants:D In my opinion we don't need snap rolls, why not consentrate on the rolls and flight pattern in the Nordic schedule.

2. The complexity level of the current schedule is kind of well balanced. It takes a lot of effort to fly it nice, and it prepares you well for the F3A schedule. I like it the way it is done today, a tuned down F3A schedule without the snap-rolls.

3. As we could see in the competitions in Norway the number of pilots flying Nordic type of schedules went down with the introduction of N-07. I think this is because that the N-07 is a lot harder to fly than the old Nordic. The new N-07 also "requires" better "hardware" to get around well. I think this is cool as long as we introduce a new schedule for beginners that will prepare them for the Nordic program.

4. In my opinion the Nordic schedule should follow the change of the current F3A schedule, this will make it more easy to enter competitions witout having to struggle against the pilots that have flown Nordic for the last "10" years.

This is my personal thoughts on the matter, and probably not to specific.

Happy flying! cool

Dag Ragnar Larsen

 

#9 2007-03-03 20:40:51

Kristian
Medlem
Registrerad: 2006-03-22
Inlägg: 248

Re: Next Nordic schedule

I agree with Dag Ragnar Larsen.

We do not need Snap roll in Nordic. Last year we did have big discussions about judgment of snap rolls in Sweden. It is not a reason to don’t have snap rolls but I believe it make it more easy to find referee to judge to Nordic program, special at local competitions (not national competitions).

It is nice if Nordic program is similar to F3A, but easier. It does make it easier for Nordic pilots to begin to train the F3A program.

I think it is good if we change program every second year. After two years you become tired of a schedule. Some people say it is only to fly F3A program if you like to have a new program, but all pilots do not have time or talent to fly F3A program.

The complexity level shall not increase. I believe it is on the limit or slightly above the limit how difficult it can get before we will lose pilots.

In Sweden we have one easier F3A program, F3A Sport.

http://www.f3a.se/uploads/images/sport.gif

Sorry it is in Swedish:

1. Startsekvens K=1
2. Looping  K=2
3. Halv omvänd kubansk åtta  K=2
4. Roll K=2
5. Immelman K=1
(Möjlighet till avbrott, ej obligatoriskt) 
6. Stallning K=2
7. Halv fyrkants looping K=1
8. Ryggflygning (Rak inverterad ) K=3
9. Halv looping K=1
10. Cobra K=2
(Möjlighet till avbrott, ej obligatoriskt) 
11. Stall turn K=3
12. Triangel looping K=3
13. Immelman K=1
14. Två varv spinn K=3
15. Landning K=1

I do not think it is necessary to have a easy program like F3A Sport common in al Scandinavian countries. But I think it is important to have an easy program for beginners. In Sweden we did have problems to find pilots to F3A Sport. It was only one competition on national level there we did have competitors in F3A Sport last year. But on the Vest coast at Sweden we does have a local F3A competition series (Kungsbacka Cup) there we always has competition in F3A Sport and Nordic. The result is that we have many new F3A pilots on Vest coast in Sweden. It is not so difficult to start in F3A Sport. I did start with a small F3A plan in 40 size in Kungsbacka Cup two years ago. The year after I did by a full size F3A and start to competition in Nordic. And it is many more how did start in F3A Sport and later on begin to fly Nordic and probably in the future F3A program.

Senast redigerat av Kristian (2007-03-03 21:12:20)


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Kristian

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